1 00:00:01,152 --> 00:00:09,808 ?? 2 00:00:09,877 --> 00:00:13,679 -These are... Stories of the saints. 3 00:00:13,748 --> 00:00:21,186 ?? 4 00:00:21,255 --> 00:00:28,911 ?? 5 00:00:28,979 --> 00:00:36,451 ?? 6 00:00:36,487 --> 00:00:39,421 [ indistinct conversations ] 7 00:00:55,239 --> 00:00:58,574 -Place your hands on the holy gospels 8 00:00:58,642 --> 00:01:02,578 And swear to tell the truth before the lord your god. 9 00:01:02,646 --> 00:01:04,880 -I don't know what you wish to ask me. 10 00:01:04,949 --> 00:01:09,017 Perhaps you might ask me things I cannot answer. 11 00:01:09,086 --> 00:01:11,386 -You must answer everything. 12 00:01:11,455 --> 00:01:12,871 -Some questions I will answer. 13 00:01:12,940 --> 00:01:15,007 On certain matters I have no right to speak. 14 00:01:15,076 --> 00:01:18,410 -You must answer every question asked of you, truly. 15 00:01:18,479 --> 00:01:21,780 -I do nothing except by revelation. 16 00:01:28,089 --> 00:01:30,305 -You must answer. 17 00:01:36,347 --> 00:01:38,747 -I swear to tell the truth 18 00:01:38,816 --> 00:01:42,551 About the things I know concerning the faith. 19 00:01:50,344 --> 00:01:52,077 -What is your name? 20 00:01:52,146 --> 00:01:53,245 -Joan. 21 00:01:53,314 --> 00:01:56,315 I am joan the maid. 22 00:01:56,383 --> 00:01:58,750 -You believe you were sent by god? 23 00:01:58,819 --> 00:02:00,419 -Yes. 24 00:02:00,488 --> 00:02:02,254 To save France. 25 00:02:02,323 --> 00:02:04,540 It is what I was born for. 26 00:02:07,678 --> 00:02:09,678 -Where were you born? 27 00:02:09,747 --> 00:02:12,815 -In the town of domremy, near the village of greux. 28 00:02:12,883 --> 00:02:14,917 [ goat bleating ] 29 00:02:14,985 --> 00:02:20,339 ?? 30 00:02:20,407 --> 00:02:22,374 -Where was the principal church? 31 00:02:22,443 --> 00:02:24,510 -In greux. 32 00:02:24,578 --> 00:02:27,212 -Where were you baptized? 33 00:02:27,281 --> 00:02:30,682 -In the church of domremy. 34 00:02:30,751 --> 00:02:33,752 My father was called jacques, my mother isabelle. 35 00:02:33,821 --> 00:02:36,772 It was my mother who gave me my belief. 36 00:02:37,708 --> 00:02:41,343 [ bell tolling in distance ] 37 00:02:41,412 --> 00:02:48,083 ?? 38 00:02:48,152 --> 00:02:51,887 -Joan was born into the middle of the hundred years war, 39 00:02:51,956 --> 00:02:53,772 Which was actually a series of wars 40 00:02:53,841 --> 00:02:58,944 Over the control of what is now modern-day France. 41 00:02:59,013 --> 00:03:00,445 On the one side, there were the english 42 00:03:00,514 --> 00:03:02,247 And the french burgundians. 43 00:03:02,316 --> 00:03:05,784 And on the other side, there were the french armagnacs. 44 00:03:05,853 --> 00:03:08,687 Of course, resulting in a civil war. 45 00:03:08,756 --> 00:03:10,973 And the ultimate question was -- 46 00:03:11,041 --> 00:03:13,675 Who would become king of France? 47 00:03:13,777 --> 00:03:16,278 -You believe god hates the english? 48 00:03:16,313 --> 00:03:19,681 -I know nothing of god's love or hatred for the english. 49 00:03:19,750 --> 00:03:23,452 But I know the english will soon be driven out of France. 50 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,639 -Joan experienced the horrors of this war. 51 00:03:27,708 --> 00:03:30,642 Many of joan's neighbors were murdered by the english, 52 00:03:30,711 --> 00:03:33,295 Their homes were ransacked and burned, 53 00:03:33,347 --> 00:03:35,747 And their women were raped. 54 00:03:35,816 --> 00:03:42,971 ?? 55 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:50,012 ?? 56 00:03:50,114 --> 00:03:53,615 And it's in the midst of this violence 57 00:03:53,684 --> 00:03:56,318 That joan first heard the voices. 58 00:03:56,353 --> 00:03:59,454 [ indistinct whispering ] 59 00:03:59,523 --> 00:04:02,207 [ birds singing ] 60 00:04:11,252 --> 00:04:13,885 -The first time I was afraid. 61 00:04:15,923 --> 00:04:17,940 After the third time, I knew it was sent by god. 62 00:04:18,008 --> 00:04:20,375 I knew it was the voices of angels -- 63 00:04:20,444 --> 00:04:24,713 St. Michael, and then st. Margaret and st. Catherine. 64 00:04:24,782 --> 00:04:26,581 The voices told me they would show me what to do, 65 00:04:26,650 --> 00:04:28,483 That it was ordained by god. 66 00:04:28,552 --> 00:04:30,986 -What did the voice tell you? 67 00:04:31,055 --> 00:04:32,487 -That I, joan, 68 00:04:32,556 --> 00:04:35,941 Must go away and raise the siege laid to the city of orl�ans. 69 00:04:36,010 --> 00:04:37,309 -But how? 70 00:04:37,378 --> 00:04:39,845 -That first, I must make my way to robert de baudricourt 71 00:04:39,913 --> 00:04:41,813 At the fortress of vaucouleurs. 72 00:04:41,882 --> 00:04:45,150 That he would give me people, to go with me to meet my king. 73 00:04:51,175 --> 00:04:52,441 I must meet baudricourt, please. 74 00:04:52,509 --> 00:04:53,742 Hello, please, can you help me? 75 00:04:53,811 --> 00:04:55,811 I must go in the castle because... 76 00:04:55,879 --> 00:04:57,913 Sir? 77 00:05:07,708 --> 00:05:09,207 -No, no, no, no, not you. 78 00:05:09,276 --> 00:05:10,909 -Please, sir, I must go inside. I must meet the dauphin. 79 00:05:10,978 --> 00:05:12,611 God has commanded me to meet -- 80 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,713 -For the last time, girl, you may not pass. 81 00:05:14,782 --> 00:05:17,683 Not yesterday, not the day before, not tomorrow. 82 00:05:17,751 --> 00:05:20,052 God said so. 83 00:05:27,611 --> 00:05:30,379 -Please. 84 00:05:30,447 --> 00:05:33,248 [ crying ] 85 00:05:33,334 --> 00:05:35,150 -Are you alright, child? 86 00:05:35,219 --> 00:05:37,019 -No, no. 87 00:05:37,087 --> 00:05:40,305 I have no more time to waste. No one will help me! 88 00:05:40,374 --> 00:05:43,108 I have no more time. I need to see baudricourt. 89 00:05:43,177 --> 00:05:46,645 And I am the only person who can restore the kingdom for France. 90 00:05:46,714 --> 00:05:48,647 It is god's will. I have no choice. 91 00:05:48,716 --> 00:05:51,249 I have no choice. 92 00:05:53,721 --> 00:05:56,271 -God willing, I will take you to baudricourt 93 00:05:56,357 --> 00:05:58,640 And lead you to the king. 94 00:06:01,145 --> 00:06:02,744 To present yourself to the dauphin, 95 00:06:02,813 --> 00:06:04,413 You'll need fine clothes. 96 00:06:04,481 --> 00:06:06,715 I know of a woman at the edge of the market square 97 00:06:06,784 --> 00:06:08,950 Who makes fine dresses. 98 00:06:09,019 --> 00:06:10,619 -It has been revealed to me 99 00:06:10,654 --> 00:06:13,138 How I should appear before the dauphin. 100 00:06:16,543 --> 00:06:20,612 -One of the messages that was revealed to joan by the voices, 101 00:06:20,681 --> 00:06:23,482 Was to dress in men's clothing. 102 00:06:23,550 --> 00:06:25,751 Which was unthinkable. 103 00:06:30,441 --> 00:06:34,276 Joan was finally taken to the dauphin's castle in chinon. 104 00:06:36,413 --> 00:06:39,748 Now, for security reasons, to be undercover, 105 00:06:39,817 --> 00:06:44,019 Charles always dressed in ordinary clothes to blend in. 106 00:06:44,088 --> 00:06:46,838 Joan had never laid eyes on the dauphin, 107 00:06:46,940 --> 00:06:51,176 But when she went in there, she walked right up to him. 108 00:06:51,245 --> 00:06:53,879 -Apologies, my lord. I will remove -- 109 00:06:56,850 --> 00:06:58,984 -Most noble lord dauphin, I am sent by god 110 00:06:59,052 --> 00:07:01,353 To bring aid to you and your kingdom. 111 00:07:01,422 --> 00:07:04,139 I humbly ask that you turn over your kingdom 112 00:07:04,208 --> 00:07:06,308 To the king of heaven, whose revelations have guided me here 113 00:07:06,376 --> 00:07:08,660 And will continue to guide me on the field of battle. 114 00:07:08,712 --> 00:07:10,212 The lord our god has made it known to me 115 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,015 That he will restore you to your original estate. 116 00:07:19,623 --> 00:07:22,374 -I see before me...A girl. 117 00:07:22,443 --> 00:07:24,209 -I am... 118 00:07:24,278 --> 00:07:28,180 -A headstrong girl, clothed in the finery of a man. 119 00:07:28,248 --> 00:07:31,683 What would compel a daughter of France to do as you have done? 120 00:07:31,752 --> 00:07:34,986 -Everything I do and every word I speak now 121 00:07:35,055 --> 00:07:38,106 Is given to me by god and spoken to me by the angels. 122 00:07:38,175 --> 00:07:42,677 I have been sent to answer your most fervent prayers. 123 00:07:48,886 --> 00:07:52,420 -There is one other possibility of course. 124 00:07:52,489 --> 00:07:55,207 And it must be ruled out. 125 00:07:55,275 --> 00:07:59,478 -For the dauphin, trusting in joan immediately... 126 00:07:59,563 --> 00:08:02,514 This was unthinkable. 127 00:08:02,583 --> 00:08:06,017 So, she was questioned by men of the church for weeks. 128 00:08:06,086 --> 00:08:09,020 And then her maidenhead had to be verified. 129 00:08:09,089 --> 00:08:12,307 Establishing her virginity was essential. 130 00:08:12,376 --> 00:08:14,476 -She is a virgin! 131 00:08:20,384 --> 00:08:22,584 -You are the daughter of a farmer. 132 00:08:22,686 --> 00:08:25,820 How can you hope to deliver us victory on the field of battle? 133 00:08:25,889 --> 00:08:27,205 -I know nothing of war. 134 00:08:27,274 --> 00:08:29,040 Only that I will go boldly into combat 135 00:08:29,109 --> 00:08:32,310 And leave the rest to our lord god and none other. 136 00:08:34,815 --> 00:08:37,315 -What do you ask of us? 137 00:08:37,384 --> 00:08:40,418 -I ask for horses, armor and arms 138 00:08:40,487 --> 00:08:44,022 For me, and a company of men. 139 00:08:44,074 --> 00:08:47,142 -What sign did you give your king that you were from god? 140 00:08:47,211 --> 00:08:50,278 -Go ask him. -I'm asking you. 141 00:08:50,347 --> 00:08:53,815 -I have always told you, you will not drag that out of me. 142 00:08:53,884 --> 00:08:57,519 If you want to know, go ask him. 143 00:08:57,588 --> 00:09:01,406 -It is said that joan told the dauphin things about himself, 144 00:09:01,475 --> 00:09:06,044 That she could only have known by revelation. 145 00:09:06,079 --> 00:09:09,080 And that that's how he came to fully believe 146 00:09:09,149 --> 00:09:11,983 That she had received the word of god. 147 00:09:13,453 --> 00:09:17,205 -O god, please help us to be brave, to be courageous. 148 00:09:17,274 --> 00:09:20,742 Please grant us strength and protection. 149 00:09:20,811 --> 00:09:25,347 -Which did you like better, your standard, or your sword? 150 00:09:25,415 --> 00:09:28,650 -I liked my standard 40 times more than my sword. 151 00:09:28,719 --> 00:09:31,186 I bore my standard when we went forward against the enemy 152 00:09:31,255 --> 00:09:34,205 To avoid killing. I have never killed anyone. 153 00:09:34,274 --> 00:09:37,676 For our king! For our people! 154 00:09:37,744 --> 00:09:39,578 For our nation of France! 155 00:09:39,646 --> 00:09:42,881 Our god calls us to orl�ans! 156 00:09:42,950 --> 00:09:45,317 [ men cheering ] 157 00:09:50,607 --> 00:09:55,076 -No one knew how or where joan acquired her skills -- 158 00:09:55,145 --> 00:09:58,913 On horseback, as a warrior, 159 00:09:58,982 --> 00:10:02,751 As a military planner. 160 00:10:02,819 --> 00:10:04,152 They just didn't know. 161 00:10:04,221 --> 00:10:07,372 They only knew that she had them. 162 00:10:07,441 --> 00:10:10,976 And so... They followed her into battle. 163 00:10:12,646 --> 00:10:15,747 It's impossible for us today to imagine the reality 164 00:10:15,816 --> 00:10:18,950 Of medieval warfare. It was blind fury. 165 00:10:19,019 --> 00:10:21,686 Man-to-man slaughter, from every direction. 166 00:10:21,755 --> 00:10:23,805 It was pure mayhem. 167 00:10:23,874 --> 00:10:26,541 [ indistinct shouting ] 168 00:10:32,882 --> 00:10:34,316 Starting with orl�ans, 169 00:10:34,384 --> 00:10:36,785 Joan and her forces did all of their fighting 170 00:10:36,870 --> 00:10:41,606 Between may and July of 1429, 171 00:10:41,675 --> 00:10:46,411 In a roughly ten-mile radius along the loire river. 172 00:10:46,513 --> 00:10:49,280 [ indistinct shouting ] 173 00:10:55,555 --> 00:10:57,372 And each victory 174 00:10:57,441 --> 00:11:01,042 Further decimated and demoralized the enemy. 175 00:11:01,128 --> 00:11:04,412 [ indistinct shouting ] 176 00:11:10,454 --> 00:11:15,807 And the turning point came in June, at the battle of patay, 177 00:11:15,876 --> 00:11:18,643 In which half of the english army was 178 00:11:18,712 --> 00:11:21,379 Either killed or injured. 179 00:11:21,448 --> 00:11:24,049 [ indistinct shouting ] 180 00:11:35,612 --> 00:11:39,381 Joan sent word to the english more than once. 181 00:11:39,449 --> 00:11:43,385 She was offering them the chance to avoid further bloodshed. 182 00:11:44,888 --> 00:11:46,821 -You men of England, you have no right 183 00:11:46,873 --> 00:11:48,540 To this kingdom of France... 184 00:11:48,608 --> 00:11:50,975 The king of heaven orders and notifies you through me, 185 00:11:51,044 --> 00:11:52,544 Joan the maiden, 186 00:11:52,612 --> 00:11:54,479 To leave your fortresses and go back to your country 187 00:11:54,548 --> 00:11:59,117 Or I will produce a clash of arms to be eternally remembered. 188 00:11:59,186 --> 00:12:02,153 This is your third and final warning. 189 00:12:02,222 --> 00:12:03,805 I would have sent this letter more properly 190 00:12:03,874 --> 00:12:07,308 But you detain my herald. Please send him back to me, 191 00:12:07,377 --> 00:12:10,211 And I will send back some of your men we've captured, 192 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,014 Because they're not all dead. 193 00:12:13,116 --> 00:12:16,951 Joan the maiden. 194 00:12:17,020 --> 00:12:19,771 -Joan was a ruthless commander. 195 00:12:19,856 --> 00:12:24,209 And it might be true that she never killed anyone herself, 196 00:12:24,277 --> 00:12:26,911 But she was responsible for the deaths of countless men 197 00:12:26,980 --> 00:12:29,080 In the battlefield. 198 00:12:30,217 --> 00:12:33,384 [ horse neighing ] 199 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,347 After battle, 200 00:13:02,415 --> 00:13:05,033 She personally tended to the wounded -- 201 00:13:05,085 --> 00:13:07,886 To her own men, 202 00:13:07,954 --> 00:13:11,005 And to the english. 203 00:13:11,074 --> 00:13:14,042 -Pater noster, qui es in caelis, 204 00:13:14,110 --> 00:13:17,278 Sanctificetur nomen tuum. 205 00:13:18,882 --> 00:13:22,016 Adveniat regnum tuum. 206 00:13:22,085 --> 00:13:24,586 Fiat voluntas tua... 207 00:13:30,744 --> 00:13:35,113 -Joan led her army on a relentless March north. 208 00:13:35,182 --> 00:13:36,581 Her every victory on the battlefield 209 00:13:36,650 --> 00:13:40,985 Took her one step closer to her ultimate goal. 210 00:13:41,922 --> 00:13:47,008 And on July 17, 1429, in the cathedral in reims, 211 00:13:47,077 --> 00:13:51,446 Where every french king from the 11th century on was crowned, 212 00:13:51,515 --> 00:13:57,151 The dauphin was made king charles vii. 213 00:13:57,220 --> 00:13:59,821 -Deus iste famulus 214 00:13:59,873 --> 00:14:01,873 Tuus coronatus 215 00:14:01,942 --> 00:14:05,410 Repleatur gratia tua. 216 00:14:05,478 --> 00:14:07,178 Amen. 217 00:14:28,518 --> 00:14:32,754 -Long live the king! -Long live the king! 218 00:14:38,478 --> 00:14:40,812 -My king. 219 00:14:40,881 --> 00:14:43,414 And now, god's will is done. 220 00:14:43,483 --> 00:14:46,117 He willed that I raise the siege of orl�ans. 221 00:14:46,186 --> 00:14:48,119 He willed that I take you to this city 222 00:14:48,188 --> 00:14:49,954 To receive your holy consecration, 223 00:14:50,023 --> 00:14:53,474 To show that you are true king, 224 00:14:53,543 --> 00:14:57,111 To whom the kingdom of god rightfully belongs. 225 00:14:57,180 --> 00:14:59,514 -Daughter of France... 226 00:14:59,583 --> 00:15:03,551 Thanks to you, god's will be done. 227 00:15:03,620 --> 00:15:07,672 Daughter of France, daughter of god. 228 00:15:07,741 --> 00:15:10,074 -Do you believe you are daughter of god? 229 00:15:10,143 --> 00:15:11,342 -Yes. 230 00:15:11,411 --> 00:15:14,646 -How do you know? -The voices. 231 00:15:14,714 --> 00:15:18,516 -The voices call you daughter of god, daughter of the church, 232 00:15:18,585 --> 00:15:20,385 Daughter great-hearted -- 233 00:15:20,453 --> 00:15:24,072 -The voices call me joan the maid, daughter of god. 234 00:15:24,140 --> 00:15:28,443 -How do you know it is not evil spirits speaking to you? 235 00:15:32,015 --> 00:15:33,281 -The voices are from god. 236 00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:36,584 It is not evil spirits that torment me, 237 00:15:36,653 --> 00:15:39,654 It is you who makes me suffer. 238 00:15:39,723 --> 00:15:43,574 And you...And you... 239 00:15:43,610 --> 00:15:47,378 And you. 240 00:15:47,447 --> 00:15:49,414 -The day after charles was crowned, 241 00:15:49,482 --> 00:15:51,783 He started a lengthy peace process 242 00:15:51,851 --> 00:15:55,019 Because he had grown tired of war. 243 00:15:55,088 --> 00:15:56,721 As a reward to joan, 244 00:15:56,773 --> 00:16:00,508 Charles elevated her family to the class of french nobility, 245 00:16:00,577 --> 00:16:03,745 Which was really a way of just pensioning her off. 246 00:16:03,847 --> 00:16:07,348 Because joan wanted to keep fighting, 247 00:16:07,417 --> 00:16:09,951 But she had served her purpose. 248 00:16:10,020 --> 00:16:13,621 To the king she had fought to place on the throne, 249 00:16:13,690 --> 00:16:15,807 She had become an annoyance... 250 00:16:15,892 --> 00:16:18,710 And a liability. 251 00:16:18,778 --> 00:16:22,613 Joan was then injured during an attempted attack on paris, 252 00:16:22,682 --> 00:16:24,816 An attack that the king later called off 253 00:16:24,884 --> 00:16:29,954 Because it interfered with his negotiations with the english. 254 00:16:30,023 --> 00:16:32,040 Then, she ran out of ammunition 255 00:16:32,108 --> 00:16:36,944 And had to retreat from the siege of la charit�. 256 00:16:37,013 --> 00:16:40,014 And at a battle in compi�gne... 257 00:16:40,083 --> 00:16:43,251 [ indistinct shouting ] 258 00:16:43,319 --> 00:16:45,186 ...She was finally cornered 259 00:16:45,255 --> 00:16:49,707 And captured by charles's enemies, 260 00:16:49,776 --> 00:16:52,310 The burgundians. 261 00:16:52,379 --> 00:16:54,779 As joan was moved from place to place, 262 00:16:54,848 --> 00:16:58,282 King charles never once lifted a finger to rescue her, 263 00:16:58,351 --> 00:17:01,185 Or pay her ransom. 264 00:17:01,254 --> 00:17:05,506 The burgundians sold joan to the english for about �10,000 265 00:17:05,575 --> 00:17:08,976 And she was then taken to their stronghold in rouen. 266 00:17:13,416 --> 00:17:16,517 She was kept from going to mass. 267 00:17:16,586 --> 00:17:21,539 And she was humiliated and belittled again and again 268 00:17:21,608 --> 00:17:23,775 At the hands of the english guards 269 00:17:23,843 --> 00:17:27,295 And the burgundian and english judges. 270 00:17:29,249 --> 00:17:32,483 [ birds singing ] 271 00:17:32,552 --> 00:17:35,553 [ indistinct whispering ] 272 00:17:48,985 --> 00:17:52,653 There was another examination to determine her virginity. 273 00:17:52,722 --> 00:17:54,405 Now, the english and the burgundians 274 00:17:54,474 --> 00:17:57,809 Were very eager to portray joan as a whore and a fraud, 275 00:17:57,877 --> 00:18:01,479 Just to shame and completely discredit her. 276 00:18:03,083 --> 00:18:05,366 -She's intact! 277 00:18:09,355 --> 00:18:14,709 -In January of 1431, the trial began -- 278 00:18:14,778 --> 00:18:16,911 The first phase, which was the longest, 279 00:18:16,980 --> 00:18:19,313 Was the proc�s d'office, 280 00:18:19,382 --> 00:18:22,483 Which went on for three months. 281 00:18:22,552 --> 00:18:25,920 That was followed by the "ordinary trial," 282 00:18:25,989 --> 00:18:29,273 Which lasted two months. 283 00:18:29,342 --> 00:18:32,510 Then there was the relapse trial, 284 00:18:32,579 --> 00:18:35,880 And that was over in a matter of days. 285 00:18:35,949 --> 00:18:39,050 Pierre cauchon, who organized the entire trial, 286 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,886 Was an enemy of the new french king, charles vii, 287 00:18:41,955 --> 00:18:47,809 And he had personally brokered the sale of joan to the english. 288 00:18:47,877 --> 00:18:49,610 The vicar of the inquisition of rouen 289 00:18:49,679 --> 00:18:53,681 Was the only other official judge. 290 00:18:53,750 --> 00:18:55,483 The cardinal of winchester 291 00:18:55,552 --> 00:18:58,786 And the bishop of th�rouane were present, 292 00:18:58,855 --> 00:19:01,405 And so were the special "assessors," 293 00:19:01,474 --> 00:19:07,078 As they were officially known, who appointed by cauchon... 294 00:19:07,147 --> 00:19:09,013 60 of them in all. 295 00:19:09,082 --> 00:19:11,215 There were english and norman prelates, 296 00:19:11,284 --> 00:19:13,985 Or church dignitaries -- 297 00:19:14,053 --> 00:19:16,420 Masters of canon law -- 298 00:19:16,489 --> 00:19:19,273 There were masters of civil law -- 299 00:19:19,342 --> 00:19:20,608 And there were the special masters 300 00:19:20,677 --> 00:19:23,077 From the university of paris. 301 00:19:25,481 --> 00:19:28,549 Now, if it seems excessive, it was. 302 00:19:28,618 --> 00:19:31,219 Because this was not a normal trial. 303 00:19:31,287 --> 00:19:34,705 Joan was provided with no advocate, which was her right. 304 00:19:36,543 --> 00:19:38,376 Now, there were some friendly faces in the room, 305 00:19:38,444 --> 00:19:41,579 But they had to be very careful -- 306 00:19:41,648 --> 00:19:44,348 They were like spies. 307 00:19:44,417 --> 00:19:46,017 -Would you like a woman's dress to wear? 308 00:19:46,085 --> 00:19:47,985 -Give me one and I will take it and go! 309 00:19:48,054 --> 00:19:51,005 Otherwise I will not take it. I am content with this attire, 310 00:19:51,074 --> 00:19:53,975 Since it pleases god that I wear it. 311 00:19:54,043 --> 00:19:57,845 -In what form, size, appearance and manner of dress 312 00:19:57,914 --> 00:19:59,513 Does st. Michael come to you? 313 00:19:59,582 --> 00:20:01,048 -As I have told you already, 314 00:20:01,117 --> 00:20:04,552 He comes in the form of a true and honest man. 315 00:20:04,621 --> 00:20:06,287 -Is he naked? -Do you think 316 00:20:06,356 --> 00:20:08,539 God cannot find clothes for him? 317 00:20:08,608 --> 00:20:12,443 -Did he tell you that he was st. Michael? 318 00:20:13,813 --> 00:20:15,713 -I saw the angels with my own eyes 319 00:20:15,782 --> 00:20:19,283 And you will get no more out of me on this point! 320 00:20:19,352 --> 00:20:22,253 -When did you last hear the voice? 321 00:20:22,322 --> 00:20:25,406 -Yesterday and today. 322 00:20:25,475 --> 00:20:27,508 I was sleeping and the voice woke me. 323 00:20:27,577 --> 00:20:29,510 -And what did the voice say? 324 00:20:29,579 --> 00:20:31,178 -I prayed to the voice to counsel me 325 00:20:31,247 --> 00:20:33,581 In how I should answer. 326 00:20:33,650 --> 00:20:36,083 And it said to answer bravely. 327 00:20:36,152 --> 00:20:38,452 It said that god would help me. 328 00:20:38,521 --> 00:20:41,505 -In what way will god help you? 329 00:20:41,574 --> 00:20:44,442 -I don't know. But he will. 330 00:20:44,510 --> 00:20:48,246 -So, will you leave the determination 331 00:20:48,314 --> 00:20:53,184 Of all matters of good and evil to holy mother church? 332 00:20:53,253 --> 00:20:54,585 -I love the church 333 00:20:54,654 --> 00:20:56,554 And wish to sustain her with all my power 334 00:20:56,623 --> 00:20:58,706 For our good christian faith. 335 00:20:58,775 --> 00:21:00,608 -Answer my question -- 336 00:21:00,677 --> 00:21:04,979 Will you leave the determination of all matters 337 00:21:05,048 --> 00:21:08,816 Of good and evil to holy mother church? 338 00:21:08,885 --> 00:21:10,685 -As for my own good works, 339 00:21:10,753 --> 00:21:13,020 I must put my faith in the kingdom of heaven. 340 00:21:13,089 --> 00:21:14,905 -Will you abide 341 00:21:14,941 --> 00:21:18,876 By holy mother church in all matters of good and evil? 342 00:21:18,945 --> 00:21:21,279 -I will abide by god who sent me, 343 00:21:21,347 --> 00:21:24,048 By the holy virgin and by all the saints in paradise. 344 00:21:24,117 --> 00:21:26,550 I believe they are all one and the same, 345 00:21:26,619 --> 00:21:27,952 God and the church. 346 00:21:28,021 --> 00:21:30,471 Why do you make it complicated? It is not. 347 00:21:30,556 --> 00:21:32,573 -Why? 348 00:21:32,642 --> 00:21:34,642 Why do you refuse 349 00:21:34,711 --> 00:21:38,045 To wear the women's clothing that was offered to you 350 00:21:38,114 --> 00:21:41,482 That would allow you to hear mass? 351 00:21:42,919 --> 00:21:45,786 -For my clothes, for everything I have done at god's command, 352 00:21:45,855 --> 00:21:48,306 I expect nothing but the salvation of my soul. 353 00:21:48,374 --> 00:21:49,890 And I would rather die 354 00:21:49,942 --> 00:21:51,776 Than revoke what god has told me to do. 355 00:21:51,844 --> 00:21:54,812 -Do you believe that you are in a state of grace? 356 00:21:54,881 --> 00:21:57,915 -If I am not, may god put me there. 357 00:21:57,984 --> 00:22:00,051 And if I am, 358 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,120 May god keep me there. 359 00:22:03,189 --> 00:22:08,209 -Her accusers' only tactic was to increase pressure, 360 00:22:08,277 --> 00:22:09,744 To break her down. 361 00:22:09,812 --> 00:22:12,446 They did this for five relentless months. 362 00:22:12,515 --> 00:22:14,715 -Will you revoke your words and deeds? 363 00:22:14,751 --> 00:22:17,351 -I will abide by god. 364 00:22:17,420 --> 00:22:19,487 -No, that's not enough! 365 00:22:19,555 --> 00:22:21,272 -I do not understand you. 366 00:22:21,341 --> 00:22:24,642 What higher authority could there be than god in heaven? 367 00:22:24,711 --> 00:22:27,345 -Where is your god now? 368 00:22:27,413 --> 00:22:29,580 Has he not promised to save you? 369 00:22:29,649 --> 00:22:31,682 -That does not concern your trial. 370 00:22:31,751 --> 00:22:34,085 -By revelation, you say. 371 00:22:34,153 --> 00:22:37,438 He promised to come help you by revelation! 372 00:22:37,523 --> 00:22:38,739 Where is he? -He is coming. 373 00:22:38,808 --> 00:22:40,508 -When? When is he coming? 374 00:22:40,576 --> 00:22:42,443 -I will be freed by a great victory! 375 00:22:42,512 --> 00:22:45,713 The voices have told me so! 376 00:22:45,782 --> 00:22:47,715 -Maybe the voices have betrayed you. 377 00:22:47,784 --> 00:22:50,885 -No. This is what I was born for. 378 00:22:53,656 --> 00:22:56,040 -Since you refuse to submit to the authority 379 00:22:56,109 --> 00:22:58,542 Of the church militant, 380 00:22:58,578 --> 00:23:02,246 This is your formal admission of guilt. 381 00:23:02,331 --> 00:23:03,814 This is what you must sign. 382 00:23:03,883 --> 00:23:08,085 This is how you will save yourself. 383 00:23:08,154 --> 00:23:09,420 -My guilt? 384 00:23:09,489 --> 00:23:11,038 -You have feigned deceitfully 385 00:23:11,107 --> 00:23:14,775 To have had revelations and apparitions of god! 386 00:23:14,844 --> 00:23:16,610 You have blasphemed god and his saints! 387 00:23:16,662 --> 00:23:18,279 -Never! -You have worn 388 00:23:18,347 --> 00:23:21,282 Misshapen clothes against natural decency! 389 00:23:21,350 --> 00:23:25,519 You have desired and caused cruel effusion of human blood! 390 00:23:25,588 --> 00:23:26,987 -English blood! 391 00:23:27,056 --> 00:23:29,206 -You have despised god and his sacraments!! 392 00:23:29,275 --> 00:23:31,776 -Never have I done this! Never have I done this!! 393 00:23:31,844 --> 00:23:33,778 -Do you know the punishment that awaits 394 00:23:33,846 --> 00:23:37,047 If you refuse to admit to all your crimes? 395 00:23:37,116 --> 00:23:40,584 Do you want to be subjected to torture? 396 00:23:41,821 --> 00:23:44,171 This is your last chance. 397 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,040 Do you want to die? 398 00:23:46,109 --> 00:23:48,943 Do you want to burn at the stake? 399 00:23:52,682 --> 00:23:55,583 The blood in your skull will boil 400 00:23:55,651 --> 00:24:01,439 And the flesh will be seared from your body before you die. 401 00:24:01,507 --> 00:24:03,808 You can save yourself! 402 00:24:03,876 --> 00:24:07,545 Admit your errors and sign 403 00:24:07,613 --> 00:24:11,715 This document of abjuration, now. 404 00:24:42,582 --> 00:24:45,115 -I will sign it. 405 00:24:47,653 --> 00:24:50,221 May god forgive me. 406 00:24:53,009 --> 00:24:56,177 -In the lord's name, amen. 407 00:24:56,245 --> 00:24:58,479 -Amen. 408 00:24:58,581 --> 00:25:01,115 -You are spared from burning. 409 00:25:03,152 --> 00:25:05,786 It is our judgment that you spend the rest of your days 410 00:25:05,855 --> 00:25:07,371 In perpetual imprisonment, 411 00:25:07,456 --> 00:25:10,875 Dressed appropriately in female dress 412 00:25:10,943 --> 00:25:13,227 And weeping for your faults. 413 00:25:13,279 --> 00:25:15,913 Here, in rouen! 414 00:25:19,919 --> 00:25:22,820 -[ sobbing ] 415 00:25:32,982 --> 00:25:35,482 [ door slams ] 416 00:25:39,255 --> 00:25:43,440 [ indistinct whispering, birds singing ] 417 00:26:33,476 --> 00:26:36,076 -Why are you wearing men's clothes again, 418 00:26:36,145 --> 00:26:37,845 And who made you take them? 419 00:26:37,913 --> 00:26:40,481 -I am wearing them of my own free will. 420 00:26:40,549 --> 00:26:42,850 -Have you heard the voices of st. Margaret 421 00:26:42,918 --> 00:26:45,519 And st. Catherine again? -Yes. 422 00:26:45,605 --> 00:26:47,187 -What did they tell you? 423 00:26:47,256 --> 00:26:50,207 -God sent them to express his great pity for me -- 424 00:26:50,276 --> 00:26:53,243 When I signed that paper, I damned myself to save my life. 425 00:26:53,312 --> 00:26:57,548 -You believe that the voices are st. Margaret and st. Catherine? 426 00:26:57,633 --> 00:26:59,383 -Yes -- they are from god. 427 00:26:59,452 --> 00:27:01,518 -You told us that you lied when you said 428 00:27:01,587 --> 00:27:06,340 That they were the voices of st. Margaret and st. Catherine. 429 00:27:09,178 --> 00:27:12,146 -I did not mean to say that. 430 00:27:12,214 --> 00:27:14,548 All that I said and renounced that day, 431 00:27:14,617 --> 00:27:17,985 I did because I was afraid of the flames. 432 00:27:18,054 --> 00:27:21,405 It was against the truth. 433 00:27:21,474 --> 00:27:24,742 I would rather make my penance once and for all, by dying, 434 00:27:24,810 --> 00:27:29,546 Than to endure the torment of prison any longer. 435 00:27:29,615 --> 00:27:33,183 In my life, I have never before done anything against god 436 00:27:33,252 --> 00:27:35,686 Or against the faith. 437 00:27:35,755 --> 00:27:40,574 In recanting, I saved my life, but I damned my soul. 438 00:27:43,212 --> 00:27:46,480 Everything I told you during the trial was the truth, 439 00:27:46,549 --> 00:27:48,248 As best I knew it. 440 00:27:50,353 --> 00:27:53,587 I thought god would keep me safe in this life. 441 00:27:55,041 --> 00:27:58,475 Now I understand. 442 00:27:58,544 --> 00:28:01,111 And his will be done. 443 00:28:02,248 --> 00:28:05,916 [ crowd jeering ] 444 00:28:39,051 --> 00:28:40,517 May I have a cross, please? 445 00:28:41,687 --> 00:28:44,338 [ crowd continues jeering ] 446 00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:15,419 -On this day, the 30th of may, 447 00:29:15,504 --> 00:29:19,706 In the year of our lord fourteen-hundred and thirty-one, 448 00:29:19,775 --> 00:29:21,909 In the city of rouen, 449 00:29:21,977 --> 00:29:24,878 I, pierre cauchon, 450 00:29:24,947 --> 00:29:27,047 Appointed chief adjudicator 451 00:29:27,116 --> 00:29:30,584 In the inquisition of the woman before you, 452 00:29:30,653 --> 00:29:32,252 The maid joan, 453 00:29:32,321 --> 00:29:35,072 Do hereby claim she has fallen again 454 00:29:35,141 --> 00:29:38,942 Into the grave errors she had abjured. 455 00:29:39,011 --> 00:29:42,513 That she has blasphemed and despised god. 456 00:29:42,581 --> 00:29:46,884 That she has gone against nature in her appearance. 457 00:29:46,952 --> 00:29:51,505 That she has been the cause of unspeakable bloodshed. 458 00:29:51,574 --> 00:29:54,141 And that she shall be tied to the stake, 459 00:29:54,210 --> 00:29:57,544 And burned unto death. 460 00:29:57,613 --> 00:30:01,181 In the name of the lord our god, his son jesus, 461 00:30:01,250 --> 00:30:03,717 And all his saints, 462 00:30:03,786 --> 00:30:09,339 I pronounce this woman -- the maid joan -- a heretic, 463 00:30:09,408 --> 00:30:13,977 And officially condemn her to die this day. 464 00:30:14,046 --> 00:30:17,080 [ crowd booing ] 465 00:30:30,079 --> 00:30:32,179 -Thank you. 466 00:30:32,248 --> 00:30:34,715 [ crowd jeering ] 467 00:30:54,119 --> 00:30:58,138 [ screaming ] 468 00:31:10,386 --> 00:31:13,787 [ continues screaming ] 469 00:31:24,049 --> 00:31:27,684 [ scream echoing ] 470 00:31:42,318 --> 00:31:45,819 -It was said that when joan gave up the ghost, 471 00:31:45,888 --> 00:31:49,673 A white dove was seen soaring into the sky. 472 00:31:56,615 --> 00:32:02,286 The story was told that after the fire went out, 473 00:32:02,354 --> 00:32:05,138 The body was reduced to ashes. 474 00:32:05,207 --> 00:32:07,908 Everything ashes, 475 00:32:07,977 --> 00:32:12,379 Except the heart. Which was completely intact 476 00:32:12,448 --> 00:32:15,549 And filled with blood. 477 00:32:15,618 --> 00:32:18,318 So, the executioner covered it with oil, and charcoal, 478 00:32:18,387 --> 00:32:23,106 And sulphur, and it still wouldn't burn. 479 00:32:24,777 --> 00:32:27,277 The executioner later accosted two monks 480 00:32:27,346 --> 00:32:29,413 And he begged for forgiveness. 481 00:32:29,481 --> 00:32:34,584 He said, "I've burned a holy woman." 482 00:32:40,676 --> 00:32:43,410 The 100 years war 483 00:32:43,479 --> 00:32:49,383 More or less came to an end in 1453, 484 00:32:49,451 --> 00:32:55,505 When the french finally drove out the english invaders. 485 00:32:58,410 --> 00:33:03,613 Three years later, in the archepiscopal palace of rouen -- 486 00:33:03,682 --> 00:33:07,017 After petitions and rulings from rome, 487 00:33:07,086 --> 00:33:11,021 And the testimony of all those left who knew joan, 488 00:33:11,073 --> 00:33:15,342 And who witnessed the travesty of her trial -- 489 00:33:15,411 --> 00:33:19,813 Every judgment against joan was vacated. 490 00:33:19,882 --> 00:33:22,315 It was nullified. 491 00:33:22,384 --> 00:33:26,937 Her fame spread throughout France, her legend grew. 492 00:33:26,972 --> 00:33:30,474 But it took about 500 years before she was beatified 493 00:33:30,542 --> 00:33:33,276 And then canonized by the very church 494 00:33:33,345 --> 00:33:36,847 Whose officers had burned her at the stake. 495 00:33:40,886 --> 00:33:44,321 Warrior or mystic? 496 00:33:44,373 --> 00:33:47,941 Can anyone even answer that question? 497 00:33:49,812 --> 00:33:54,481 At the heart of absolutely everything...Is her faith. 498 00:33:54,550 --> 00:33:59,186 Her absolute, unshakable faith. 499 00:34:16,722 --> 00:34:19,840 [ indistinct conversation ] 500 00:34:25,214 --> 00:34:30,350 What are the procedures for, uh, beatification, canonization? 501 00:34:30,419 --> 00:34:32,252 How has that changed over the years? 502 00:34:32,321 --> 00:34:33,787 Going back, of course, 503 00:34:33,856 --> 00:34:36,540 To the first century, too, which we understand, 504 00:34:36,608 --> 00:34:38,842 I think the procedure was -- there was no procedure. 505 00:34:38,911 --> 00:34:42,512 -Yeah. Early on, it was sort of popular acclimation. 506 00:34:42,581 --> 00:34:44,981 And the idea was, certainly for the martyrs, 507 00:34:45,083 --> 00:34:46,650 They were considered saints. 508 00:34:46,718 --> 00:34:48,251 But then as time wore on, 509 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,320 We went to the place where we are now. 510 00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:52,572 Which is basically, it has to start locally. 511 00:34:52,641 --> 00:34:55,342 Uh, so there has to be a local devotion. 512 00:34:55,410 --> 00:34:57,744 The person is called, uh, a servant of god. 513 00:34:57,813 --> 00:34:59,946 And then when that is approved by the vatican, 514 00:35:00,015 --> 00:35:01,615 They're called venerable. 515 00:35:01,683 --> 00:35:03,049 And then when they get their first miracle, 516 00:35:03,118 --> 00:35:04,284 They're called blessed. 517 00:35:04,353 --> 00:35:05,986 So that's called beatification. 518 00:35:06,054 --> 00:35:08,505 And then when they have two miracles, they're canonized. 519 00:35:08,574 --> 00:35:10,173 So it's much more formal. 520 00:35:10,242 --> 00:35:12,876 And the idea is that the church wants to guard 521 00:35:12,945 --> 00:35:15,445 Against the possibility that someone would, 522 00:35:15,514 --> 00:35:17,280 You know, had something in their background, 523 00:35:17,349 --> 00:35:19,149 Uh, that would be untoward... 524 00:35:19,218 --> 00:35:22,419 And so a longer process means more investigation. 525 00:35:22,488 --> 00:35:24,371 So it's a long, long process. 526 00:35:24,423 --> 00:35:27,340 -But isn't, isn't there something untoward 527 00:35:27,409 --> 00:35:28,875 In everybody's background? 528 00:35:28,944 --> 00:35:31,411 -I was gonna say. -Well, I mean, really untoward. 529 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,914 [ laughter ] -the thing about joan, 530 00:35:33,982 --> 00:35:35,982 That she was looked like a crazy woman. 531 00:35:36,051 --> 00:35:38,752 -Well, joan of arc is not like any of the other saints. 532 00:35:38,821 --> 00:35:40,887 I always think of all the saints, she's the one 533 00:35:40,956 --> 00:35:43,640 I think most people would have trouble with today. 534 00:35:43,709 --> 00:35:46,076 I mean, if francis came up, oh -- I love the poor. 535 00:35:46,145 --> 00:35:49,579 Uh, I'm working with the poor. Even maximillian kolbe, 536 00:35:49,648 --> 00:35:51,281 Who, you know -- I'm gonna sacrifice my life. 537 00:35:51,350 --> 00:35:53,150 But this idea that I'm hearing voices, 538 00:35:53,218 --> 00:35:57,053 And I'm gonna lead the army of France to defeat England, 539 00:35:57,122 --> 00:35:59,372 That -- that's a little off putting for people. 540 00:35:59,441 --> 00:36:01,208 -It is, it is. So how do we, in a sense, 541 00:36:01,276 --> 00:36:05,812 Try to reconcile the warrior joan, with her faith? 542 00:36:05,881 --> 00:36:11,551 How do we reconcile this, um... Carnage with faith? 543 00:36:11,620 --> 00:36:13,887 -I always like to think of her as more of a liberator. 544 00:36:13,956 --> 00:36:16,540 That's how I look at her. Not, not as a warrior, 545 00:36:16,608 --> 00:36:19,776 But as someone who is delivering her people from, uh, 546 00:36:19,845 --> 00:36:22,279 Under the heel of english oppressors. 547 00:36:22,347 --> 00:36:24,681 -A teenage girl, not even from paris, 548 00:36:24,750 --> 00:36:26,917 From the provinces, unlettered... 549 00:36:26,985 --> 00:36:29,052 Hears voices that tell her to take a role 550 00:36:29,121 --> 00:36:31,471 In the political affairs of France and England 551 00:36:31,540 --> 00:36:33,640 At a major time of upheaval 552 00:36:33,709 --> 00:36:35,775 And winds up getting people to listen to her 553 00:36:35,844 --> 00:36:38,979 And winds up leading an army and winds up having the claims 554 00:36:39,047 --> 00:36:41,815 That she makes evaluated in ecclesiastical courts. 555 00:36:41,884 --> 00:36:44,684 It's so strange that you couldn't make it up. 556 00:36:44,753 --> 00:36:46,920 -It's the same thing as jesus. I mean, I always wonder 557 00:36:46,989 --> 00:36:49,039 What was his first talk like, you know, 558 00:36:49,107 --> 00:36:52,442 After he -- right there in nazareth, what was his first? 559 00:36:52,511 --> 00:36:54,344 -Well, they didn't like it. They didn't like it very much. 560 00:36:54,413 --> 00:36:56,313 -They hated it. They said, he's a nut. 561 00:36:56,381 --> 00:36:57,714 -You know, I think joan is someone 562 00:36:57,783 --> 00:37:00,383 Who also trusts her experiences. -Yes, yes. 563 00:37:00,452 --> 00:37:03,320 -She trusts what she sees, and she is faithful to that. 564 00:37:03,388 --> 00:37:06,106 And I think that is very much along the lines 565 00:37:06,141 --> 00:37:08,008 Of the rest of the lives of the saints. 566 00:37:08,076 --> 00:37:11,778 You know, even though they are, uh, you know, sort of set upon 567 00:37:11,847 --> 00:37:15,282 And, ignored and sometimes opposed, they trust it. 568 00:37:15,367 --> 00:37:18,051 -I always like to think of her in high school for some reason. 569 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,320 -I like to think of her -- -she's the patron saint of -- 570 00:37:20,389 --> 00:37:22,806 -Of high school students. -Of headstrong teenagers. 571 00:37:22,874 --> 00:37:27,110 -Well, of oddball people in middle school 572 00:37:27,179 --> 00:37:29,746 Who are not looked on very kindly maybe 573 00:37:29,815 --> 00:37:31,314 By their, by their fellows. 574 00:37:31,383 --> 00:37:35,485 And who nonetheless have some love and some devotion 575 00:37:35,554 --> 00:37:37,921 So deep and so pure in her. 576 00:37:37,973 --> 00:37:41,474 She's probably illiterate. I mean, she had no power. 577 00:37:41,543 --> 00:37:43,209 Uh, joan the maid, they called her. 578 00:37:43,278 --> 00:37:46,279 I mean, she was feeding pigs. I mean, what was she doing? 579 00:37:46,348 --> 00:37:49,382 -And further, um, her dress. 580 00:37:49,451 --> 00:37:51,952 The male dressing... 581 00:37:52,020 --> 00:37:54,254 Which I'm not an anthropologist or historian 582 00:37:54,323 --> 00:37:56,740 Of the ordinary life of people in the middle ages, 583 00:37:56,808 --> 00:38:00,877 But I don't believe a woman dressing as a man 584 00:38:00,946 --> 00:38:02,512 Is gonna go over well in terms -- 585 00:38:02,581 --> 00:38:03,880 -They frowned on it. -They frowned on it. 586 00:38:03,949 --> 00:38:05,615 -They still do sometimes. -They do? 587 00:38:05,684 --> 00:38:08,285 -Yeah, I hear that... I don't know why. 588 00:38:08,353 --> 00:38:11,972 -Also, the prizing of virginity. 589 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,474 -When she was canonized, she was canonized as a virgin, 590 00:38:14,543 --> 00:38:16,142 Not as a martyr. -This is the crazy thing. 591 00:38:16,211 --> 00:38:19,412 It took about 500 years for her to be canonized. 592 00:38:19,481 --> 00:38:21,081 I mean, what's that about? 593 00:38:21,183 --> 00:38:24,951 -Also the interest in the area for our church, 594 00:38:25,020 --> 00:38:27,120 Sorry, fellas, have to say it, 595 00:38:27,189 --> 00:38:28,972 Between a woman's waist and her knees. 596 00:38:29,041 --> 00:38:33,043 The fascination. I mean, their fascination 597 00:38:33,111 --> 00:38:36,780 With having to be sure she was quote unquote intact. 598 00:38:36,848 --> 00:38:39,182 -Well, the virginity, of course, is seen as a form of purity 599 00:38:39,251 --> 00:38:42,452 Back then. But also, there's been a lot of scholarship 600 00:38:42,521 --> 00:38:45,472 Recently that's talked about, women, 601 00:38:45,540 --> 00:38:47,107 Uh, retaining their virginity 602 00:38:47,175 --> 00:38:50,076 As, kind of an emblem of their power, right? 603 00:38:50,145 --> 00:38:53,079 That they are, they are, they are keeping it to themselves. 604 00:38:53,148 --> 00:38:55,515 And it's not for them to give away. 605 00:38:55,584 --> 00:38:57,584 That's a kind of revisionist idea 606 00:38:57,652 --> 00:38:59,319 Of what it means to be a virgin martyr. 607 00:38:59,388 --> 00:39:02,639 On the one hand, you don't want to elevate virginity, per se. 608 00:39:02,674 --> 00:39:04,891 On the other hand, in the patriarchal time, 609 00:39:04,943 --> 00:39:06,743 You know, when a woman was the possession 610 00:39:06,812 --> 00:39:09,245 Of either, uh, her father or her husband. 611 00:39:09,314 --> 00:39:11,247 -That's right. -It could be a radical act. 612 00:39:11,316 --> 00:39:13,717 Right. Of kind of self-determination, 613 00:39:13,785 --> 00:39:15,168 Self definition. -But the other way 614 00:39:15,220 --> 00:39:17,954 She inspires me is in her moments... 615 00:39:18,023 --> 00:39:21,007 Because that's what makes me see her humanity 616 00:39:21,076 --> 00:39:25,879 And makes me think I have a shot in my little sinful self. 617 00:39:25,947 --> 00:39:29,582 That when she refuses, you know, she signs the paper, 618 00:39:29,651 --> 00:39:33,520 They cudgel her into signing this thing -- that she was, 619 00:39:33,588 --> 00:39:36,940 You know, would, you know, was this was all heretical 620 00:39:37,008 --> 00:39:39,876 And blah, blah, blah -- and then she goes back 621 00:39:39,945 --> 00:39:45,615 And she's so consoled by god that god isn't angry, 622 00:39:45,684 --> 00:39:49,386 And or the voices, the saints, catherine, michael, margaret, 623 00:39:49,454 --> 00:39:51,054 Or not punishing to her, 624 00:39:51,123 --> 00:39:52,772 But then she comes back and says, you know, 625 00:39:52,841 --> 00:39:55,608 I have to recant this. I lied to you, 626 00:39:55,677 --> 00:39:58,344 Uh, because I was afraid of being tortured. 627 00:39:58,413 --> 00:39:59,646 -It's a very human moment. 628 00:39:59,714 --> 00:40:01,614 -But isn't that what we all do too? 629 00:40:01,683 --> 00:40:03,083 -Sure. -Is that we get up 630 00:40:03,151 --> 00:40:05,318 In the morning, we say our prayers, whatever, 631 00:40:05,387 --> 00:40:09,739 And think today will be the day that I'm not judgmental, 632 00:40:09,808 --> 00:40:14,077 Cruel, you know, unkind, x, y, z. 633 00:40:14,146 --> 00:40:18,481 And, but you have a chance throughout the day 634 00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:20,884 If you listen to that voice. 635 00:40:20,952 --> 00:40:23,653 I mean, don't we all have it, whether you're catholic or not. 636 00:40:23,722 --> 00:40:25,238 -Yeah. The voice of your conscience. 637 00:40:25,323 --> 00:40:26,773 And you know, the jesuits have a saying 638 00:40:26,842 --> 00:40:28,475 That we're all loved sinners. 639 00:40:28,543 --> 00:40:30,943 -Yes. -Right? And so were the saints. 640 00:40:30,979 --> 00:40:33,246 This, I mean, they were all, they weren't divine. 641 00:40:33,315 --> 00:40:35,782 Right? Uh, they did difficult things. 642 00:40:35,851 --> 00:40:38,017 They were human beings who sinned from time to time. 643 00:40:38,086 --> 00:40:39,919 So you know, the old saying, 644 00:40:39,988 --> 00:40:43,006 No, no saint without a past, no sinner, without a future. 645 00:40:43,074 --> 00:40:45,809 -No. I love that. Can I get a tattoo? 646 00:40:45,877 --> 00:40:47,243 No saint without a past -- 647 00:40:47,312 --> 00:40:49,612 You're just giving me so much hope, jim. 648 00:40:49,681 --> 00:40:51,548 [ laughter ] 649 00:40:51,616 --> 00:41:01,441 ?? 650 00:41:01,510 --> 00:41:11,284 ?? 651 00:41:11,353 --> 00:41:21,110 ?? 652 00:41:21,179 --> 00:41:30,753 ?? 653 00:41:30,822 --> 00:41:40,580 ?? 654 00:41:40,649 --> 00:41:50,406 ?? 655 00:41:50,475 --> 00:42:00,283 ?? 656 00:42:00,352 --> 00:42:10,109 ?? 657 00:42:10,178 --> 00:42:19,752 ?? 658 00:42:19,821 --> 00:42:29,579 ?? 659 00:42:29,648 --> 00:42:39,405 ?? 660 00:42:39,474 --> 00:45:49,929 ?? 661 00:45:49,979 --> 00:45:54,529 Repair and Synchronization by Easy Subtitles Synchronizer 1.0.0.0